Episode 44-  Stu Grimson and Rich Helppie.

Brian Kruger:

Welcome to the podcast, the Common Bridge with Richard Helppie. Rich is a successful entrepreneur in the technology, health and finance space. He and his wife, Leslie, are also philanthropists with interest in civic and artistic endeavors, but with a primary focus on medically and educationally under-served children. My name is Brian Kruger, and from time to time I’ll be the moderator and host of this podcast.

A welcome again to the Common Bridge. Today Rich’s guest is former National Hockey League player Stu Grimson and this is a really interesting conversation that I think you’re going to enjoy. So let’s join Rich and Stu in conversation now.

Rich Helppie:

Stu, it’s a real pleasure to talk to you and to welcome you to the Common Bridge. I have to tell you, really enjoyed the book. Want to make sure that the listeners know the name of the book is Stu Grimson, The Grim Reaper:  The Life and Career of a Reluctant Warrior, and the co-writer on this or the support writer is National Hockey League Lester Patrick award winner, Kevin Allen. For those people that know Stu Grimson, they’re going to of course know him as a professional hockey player. I’d like to encourage everybody to read the book or listen to the book. You’ll understand that he morphed to a law profession. He worked for the NHL Players Association. He has worked in both radio and television, and he’s also a very dedicated father to four terrific children. So great that you can hear that someone’s got a fantastic career following time as an active player.

And in that act of playing time, Stu Grimson logged 729 games. He scored 17 goals, probably remembers most of those 39 points, 2,113 penalty minutes and literally hundreds of fights. And if you read the book, you’ll hear about the camaraderie of the other warriors that dominated hockey at that time. Today he’s the NHL network studio analyst, and he is a corporate counsel and vice president for business development for Third Home in Nashville. So Stu, welcome to the Common Bridge. What a honor it is to have you here.

Rich Helppie:

Oh, Rich, it’s my pleasure. It really is, and thank you for that warm, far too glowing introduction. And you’re right, I do remember each of those 17 goals, the 2100 penalty minutes, however, vague recollection of most of those-vague recollection.

Rich Helppie:

I can understand that. Well, I really did love the book, a great story by a great storyteller, insights into personal responsibility, to choices, loyalties, respect for others, your faith journey, fatherhood, and of course the hilarious incidents that just kept me smiling the whole time. And I hope we get to cover a little bit of that today. But what we’ve been talking about on the Common Bridge is the pandemic and its impact on our society. We’ve covered the stress in the medical system, the changes in courts and jails and mental health, the economic impact-of course, the environment. And now folks are saying are we going to get back to some semblance of normal? And of course a restart of pro sports and the National Hockey League. So that is what we’re going to cover today. But you know, Stu, for the benefit of our listeners, I know it’s hard to cover a life in in a few minutes, but what a great story growing up and how the pro scout found you. Do you mind sharing some of that with our listeners?

Stu Grimson

Oh, I’m happy to Rich, I really am, in fact I’m fond of saying-and this is an important part of why ultimately I chose to write the book, because I did have several people in my ear over a long course of time saying, hey, you really ought to consider something like this. And I brushed it off repeatedly, not convinced that the story was worth telling. But I think ultimately I kind of come to the following place-when you get to the NHL by a very unconventional path, and then you do something rather unique, in terms of the role that I played while I was there, this whole notion of, enforcer, fourth-line left winger, journeyman and enforcer type player. You do that for 14 years and then you leave the game and you go off and kind of reinvent yourself another two or three times after that and end up in a walk of life or a profession that you perhaps at an earlier time in your life hadn’t envisioned, I think you have some stories to tell. And I think you’ve learned some things along the way, both about what to do affirmatively, what not to do. And that was ultimately the reason that I wrote the book. And I have had that come back to me through many, many people in many, many different walks of life Rich. And that’s been a great encouragement to me that some of the lessons that I’ve learned really resonate with folks out there.

But I am so fond of telling this story about how I was-and you can’t see me, but let me put some air quotations around, 都coutedplaying hockey, we played football-and we were walking downtown main street, Kamloops, British Columbia, Western Canada. We were about 15 years of age at the time. And back then we had folks that would-they were drill rig workers. They would come to town on the weekends. They’re hell on blown off some steam and kind of whooping it up. We used to call these guys affectionately-maybe not so affectionately-we called them rig pigs, but they’d usually come to town and they kind of start all kinds of trouble. So my buddies and I are walking down the street when we’re in our Sahaili High School football jackets and we’re walking towards the movie theater on Main Street Kamloops, there’s a handful of these rig pigs on the other side of the street-they’re mid twenties to upper twenties. They’re walking down the other side of the street in the same direction as us, cut across and lo and behold, we ended up on the same corner, right in front of the movie theater, Main Street, Kamloops, British Columbia on a Saturday night. And these guys clearly don’t have the best intentions at the start. The biggest one in the back of the pile is pointing his finger at us going, Sahaili sucks, Sahaili sucks onions-just kind of outright taunting us. My buddies are kind of shoulder to shoulder, three of them across. I parted the shoulders of two of my buddies, waded in and I clocked this guy, I just drilled him, popped out two of his teeth, laid them out on the pavement, and then he kind of shakes it off, gets up and we’re in the throughs of a pretty good set to for the next couple of minutes. As this is happening-as legend would have it-the head scout for the Regina Pats of the WHL, that’s major junior hockey back in Western Canada, the head scout of the Regina Pats, my eventual junior team, he lives in Kamloops, British Columbia. He’s driving by the movie theater at the very moment this big brawl is going on, and kind of looks out his car window goes, hey, I think I know that kid. That’s the Grimson boy. I’ve seen him down at the civic center playing hockey, but I’ve never seen him do that before. As the story goes, a week later I was the property of the Regina Pats of the WHL. Long story made shorter. Fast forward to the future. I did spend three years of junior hockey with the Regina Pats, and I was ultimately able to parlay that into an NHL career by a fairly long and winding path. But that’s the discovery story. That’s the welcome to elite level hockey story.

Rich Helppie:

That’s great. And I hope people pick up the book and find out what happened to your sneaker. That’s probably the advice that your father, a Mountie gave you, and that led to a career-I want to say 14 fights with Bob Probert-which one fight with Bob Probert would scare me. So from battling the rig pigs to facing off with all of the premiere heavyweights of that era and particularly Bob Probert, what a story.

Stu Grimson:

Probie was a guy I have immense respect for it, really did. If you think about it, and I know for you, having followed the Redwings, having followed Probert’s career, for essentially all of his career, and certainly while a member of the Redwings, he was a really a unique individual. He was big. He was fierce. He was tough. He was feared by his peers and certainly respected by the guys that played that role, the role that we played. And he was also a great player at the same time. Bob was invited to the All Star game at an earlier stage in his career. Bob came within a whisker of scoring 30 goals at an earlier stage in his career. And you’re hard pressed to go out there and find somebody as fierce and still as gifted as Bob Probert was for that era. He lacked in any particular asset. He really was quite something and got to know him after our careers ended and really grew to appreciate him as a father, as a husband, and as a really fine guy. Rich, it was funny, we ended up on both sides of that rivalry. When I started out, cutting my teeth as a Chicago Blackhawk. Bob was a Redwing on the other side of that Chuck Norris Division rivalry. And then at a later stage in our careers, we kind of flipped-switched jerseys and I’m a member of the Redwings and Probie kind of finished up the second half of his career, a member of the Chicago Blackhawks.

Rich Helppie:

I have many good memories of watching Bob Probert and you play at the then Joe Lewis arena. And that’s what I call that my happy place, for whatever reason, I just relax when I go watch a hockey game. And then the role of the enforcers, you really are very direct and, with some insight that I’ve never read about the early deaths. So, Jeff Parker, Todd Ewin, Bob Probert, Eric Boguard, Wade Belack, it’s a different world at that time. And that brotherhood where you all-off the ice-shared a special connection even though once things were laced up, it was go time.

Stu Grimson:

Yeah, it’s true. And a lot of people really find that puzzling or peculiar that guys that behave that way on the ice in terms of how ferocious we were with one another. It was really win at all costs, it’s well-documented in the book. Guys in that weight class, these are guys that are capable of crushing human bone with their fist and everything’s on the line at that moment in time. And it is a rather kind of a surreal or peculiar existence, but made even more peculiar because it’s not a source of contention or a source of animosity, a sense of hatred between those people once they step away from the arena. It’s actually quite the opposite, it’s almost a sense of rapport because there’s a mutual respect. There’s an understanding for the role and what’s required to do the role. So, it’s an odd thing, Rich, but there is a bond that forms among the men that did that for a living.

Rich Helppie:

And I understand what you mean about the players being different when they come off the ice. My experience with professional athletes, and no disrespect to any other sports, but hockey players seem to be the nicest people. And I know Kevin Allen, who I’ve known for many years who wrote the book with you, and has decades long history in sports writing, said if it wasn’t hockey that he was assigned to, he didn’t think he would do it as long. And so I again encourage folks to read the book. Then you came out of your active playing career and who would have thought the next stop was going to be at law school?

Stu Grimson:

Well, believe me, for anybody that’s studied law-and I will just footnote here-it’s as challenging…and I’ve done a lot of things Rich-it’s as challenging, I guess an exercise or task as I’ve ever come across. It really is, it’s a heavy lift. I looked at law school as though it were a full time job and a half while I did it. And perhaps it was complicated for me because I was raising a young family at the same time. So that’s a it’s a bit of a balance one has to walk. But I will say, especially in my first year, I don’t know if there was a day where I didn’t wake up, put my feet on the floor and go, what the heck am I doing in Memphis, Tennessee? This kid that grew up in Kamloops, British Columbia, what the heck am I doing in Memphis, Tennessee going to law school? Like, how on earth did I get here?

But I will tell you, in all honesty, I set out on that path because other former players had kind of modeled that path. And I had seen them go on to do some really exciting things in their life. People like Mike Lee, people like George McPhee, like Neil Sheehy of the hockey world, guys that have gone on to work as agents, as general managers, and had held some really exciting jobs in our industry. And I did it in part because of that. And in part because as I transitioned from a life in the NHL, a career in the NHL, to something else, and I wasn’t sure what that was. I just wanted to make sure that I allowed myself to choose from the broadest range of choices as I possibly could. And gosh, Rich, it really rung true. I wasn’t a hundred percent convinced of that notion back when I set out on that path, but it really has come back to me. I’ve been a lawyer, I’ve litigated, I’ve worked as in-house counsel, I’ve done a bunch of different things. And both my career in the game, I owe the game a lot, but my education have opened doors for me. Those two things together have opened doors for me and allowed me to live a very, very rewarding life. I couldn’t be more happy with kind of where I am today and what I’m doing.

Rich Helppie:

And I saw how all that experience combined with your work at the union, the National Hockey League’s Players Associations, the elimination of the salary cap, and my only editorial I’ll make there, I kind of liked it when there was no salary cap because all these really great players-before they were going to be inducted into the hall of fame, they seem to spend two or three years in Detroit. And when you have guys like Brett Hall and Luke Robatie in your third line, you’ve got a pretty good team.

I can’t even imagine what the practices must have been like for young players that trying to keep up with all those hall of famers, future hall of famers around you in the dressing room. But that was a really difficult time. It was one with elements of intrigue, elements of backstabbing, betrayals. We’ve heard about whistle-blowers in other contexts. We’re still going through that, the United States today. And ultimately at the end of it to make the union fulfill its obligations, you had to bring suit against a former employer. And I’ve walked in those shoes so I understand it’s not a fun time. Litigation’s war, there’s no place to hide. And I’d imagine that there was parallels to lacing up skates in an NHL game.

Stu Grimson:

Yeah, I think that certainly is fair to say. I think the one-if we’re going to make that contrast and I think it’s probably a fair one, Rich, I probably prefer the battle on the ice to that of the courtroom or to that of one that’s as politically tangled and sophisticated as my experiences at the NHL Players Association. It really is a political hot seat. And I walked into it a little bit naively and didn’t really fully understand how contentious it was until I had been on the ground for several months. But if we’re making that contrast, I sure prefer the fight on the ice because it’s pretty straight forward and you know exactly where your opponent is and you know exactly what’s expected of you. I don’t miss tangling with guys my size on ice, on skates and with bare fists, but it was a much simpler time, that’s for sure.

Rich Helppie:

Right. And look, I’ve been in litigation because I’ve been in business, and I found that you can’t sneak in a butt end or a face wash against opposing counsel no matter how much you want to do that.

So you moved off from the National Hockey League Players Association over into the media side first with the Predators as a radio analyst, and then over to the NFL network as the studio analyst. Fun jobs?

Stu Grimson:

Oh gosh, absolutely tickled to death and still thrilled to be doing it today, I really am. And I think it’s worth saying, Rich, I’m one of those guys who left the game going, broadcasting is not for me. I’ve seen lots of guys go on to do it who enjoy it, it’s just not for me. I really…I just…I questioned myself and I don’t know that I have the same love for the game and for following the game as they did. But I grew to realize, when I played the game, I did everything I could to kind of escape from the game when I didn’t need to be at the game, because my role in the game is a really hard role to play. It’s physically taxing, it’s emotionally taxing. So I did everything I could to avoid the game while I played it. So I kind of came away with this notion, or this understanding of myself mistakenly. So I don’t care for the game that much.

So the point I’m making is that having started off, left the game and then started off on a path of working in the law as in house counsel for the players’ association, coming back to Tennessee to litigate for several years. And then the Preds kind of approached me and said, Hey, we don’t have anybody doing the radio color commentary for us, would you consider doing that just for the home games? We’ll give you a little bit, give you some money, make it worth your while, but you can continue to build a legal practice while you do that. I agreed and thought, I’ll give it a try, see what comes of it. I enjoyed jumping on air and reacting to what I saw happen on the ice and and bringing my experiences, my past experience as a player, to bear on that, to kind of help educate people or provide exactly that, a little color to what we were seeing or hearing. And Rich, I enjoyed it more than I ever thought I would. It really did get the juices flowing, even to be involved in the game but removed by several levels. So when the Preds came, after about two years worth of this, and offered me the TV color job full time, I didn’t have to think too much about that. It made great sense for me to take that step. So a long winded way of answering your question Rich, but I was more surprised than anybody that the answer to your question is yes, I loved it-found out that I loved it when I didn’t realize I had a love for it and that passion still exists today, and I’m thrilled that I’m able to continue that as a senior analyst for the NHL network.

Rich Helppie:

And you’re doing also double duty with Third Home, as the general counsel, inside counsel and as well as vice president of business development. It looks like a pretty interesting business too.

Stu Grimson:

It really is. We’re feeling like anybody else in the travel industry right now, but we essentially-just for folks that may not be familiar with it-we are, at Third Home, a private travel club. Folks who have perhaps a second home and who loved to travel. They can put availability in their second home into our system, allow others to use it, and then we give them-as they make that availability-allow our members access to that availability in their home. We give them currency, we call them keys in our system, so that they can kind of travel within our collection of 11,000 homes in 95 different countries. So it’s really kind of a great massive home exchange travel club and our members are just thrilled to be able to participate. Those positive comments come back to us frequently. Jen and I heard about the concept through mutual friends, Jen, my wife, we decided we’d invest and that turned into an expanded relationship that kind of started with the CEO saying, hey Stu, you really ought to consider coming to work for us being a part of the team. So yes, I am a in-house counsel and I work in business development. I’m also a shareholder, but it’s a really exciting company, Rich. And for Jen and I, I think the primary reason we’re involved, we love the concept and it actually ends up being less like work and more like an extension of the way we like to live. We love travel and Third Home allows us to do that.

Rich Helppie:

I like the concept. I hope that folks will look into that. Stu, let’s shift now. There’s a lot of information and lots of rumors about how or if or when the National Hockey League is going to start again. And what do we know today about the plans for restart?

Stu Grimson:

Yeah, you’re right. It’s an interesting way to kind of dive into this topic, isn’t it Rich? We don’t really know if, although the probabilities are high, we don’t know when. The only thing we really do know is how. When the NHL does come back, how will it look? What will it look like? We do know that much. It’s going to be an expanded kind of a quasi playoff format whereby 24 teams, 12 from each conference will qualify because we’ve kind of set the balance of-and I think there was about 15%-ish left to play on the regular season. We’re going to set that aside. That’s not going to be completed, but we’re going to dive into this expanded playoff format whereby the top four teams on either side, each conference, will engage in a round-robin. Each of them will play one another one time and then we’ll seed the top four records according to who has done best in this four team round-robin. The remaining teams, the other eight teams will essentially engage in a five game playoff series against one opponent. The winner of those four match-ups will go on to flesh out the remaining four teams-total of eight teams-on each conference. So I know that’s a lot to kind of keep straight in your head, but it’s essentially an expanded playoff format. That’s what it’ll look like going forward.

And to the other questions you’ve raised about that, I think the simplest way to answer it is, time will tell the way this virus and our ability to kind of curtail it and to suppress it. We as citizens and the respective governments from one kind of area to the next. Our ability to kind of contain and suppress, that will dictate when and if the sport gets back on the ice. I tend to be an optimist in this and most situations, I feel like we are going to get back on the ice because if nothing at all, what the players and the league and the owners have signaled to us right from the start, they are number one, determined to get the game back on the ice and finish 19-the season, 2019-2020-in some way. And they’re very flexible about when that happens. So I’m very encouraged about the state of the game today all things considered.

Rich Helppie:

Well, it’s a short time that someone gets the opportunity and the privilege to play in the National Hockey League. And so missing a season and not having a chance to win a Stanley Cup would be tragic. And I’ve read about hurdles that have to be overcome, like getting the international players back to North America, that individual water bottles and towels on the benches instead of passing the bottle down, no carpooling and the like. From a player’s perspective that just seems really strange. Or is it just the being able to feel the blades on the ice is going to be enough. They’re willing to go through any hoop to get there.

Stu Grimson:

Remember as we go through all of this, I know our listeners are aware of, there is a priority with respect to these different segments of our society and what should we restrict more aggressively than other areas. And nail salons and tattoo parlors, and the one example I want to focus attention on, is health clubs, fitness centers, those areas, those types of establishment, because they have a propensity to spread contact. There’s just a higher risk of it there. Well if you think about the NHL, it’s kind of like that except it’s just a healthcare facility played by fewer people participating. But it’s essentially a health care facility on steroids if you’ll pardon the analogy. So I think for that reason, Rich, we really need to be careful and, and we’ve got to think through everything as we put these guys back in an environment where the potential to harm one another and harm others increases as a result of the contact.

It was interesting. We’ve talked plenty about Kevin Allen. I was on with-Kevin and Bob Duff have a podcast. We, Bob, got us started on a discussion over fighting and it really hadn’t occurred to me, but the more you think it through, why not? Why would the league at this point not try to implement at least a temporary ban on fighting? Because gosh, just shoulder to shoulder contact between me and you when we’re on the ice, that creates a risk of spreading something untoward. But two guys embroiled in a fight where they are literally nose to nose for 30 seconds or 45 seconds at a time, right now at this moment-our nation’s history or the globe’s history, if we can avoid that, I think it’s preferred.

Rich Helppie:

Well, you know what Don cherry might say about that.

Stu Grimson:

I know exactly what Don Cherry would say.

Rich Helppie:

He’d say those European players would like that because they could slash you with the end of the stick and be safe and not have to face retaliation. Growing up in Detroit, of course, we had the CBC on from Windsor and Hockey Night in Canada’s just part of Detroit, and there was no entertainer like grapes. Had to turn on to see what outrageous thing he might say next. And by the way, you have something in your book about him as as well.

But back to the reopening. I also understand that they were saying that the coaches have to coach from the stands, would limit it to six players on the ice at a time during practice, no contact practices, which, I’m not sure how you do that, and I’m wondering, all the great coaches you played for the Scotty Bowman’s, Mike Keenan’s, many others. Can you imagine them going up in the stands and just trying to coach a team from that level?

Stu Grimson:

It’ll be surreal. It’ll be peculiar. Though I am fond of saying, I think the NHL and pro hockey is a really wonderful and worthwhile concept if you could just figure out a way to eliminate the coaches, and this might be the first step towards that. It’ll be…it’s an interesting consideration, it really is. It’s another, I think, reasonable and worthwhile measure to take if you can’t have somebody, like a coach, continue to do his job for the most part, effectively from a remote-more remote-location than being right there on the ice and increasing the human to human contact or potential for spread of something untoward. I think that’s preferred. And that really to me sounds like another, in just a probably growing list of measures that’s worthwhile taking.

Rich Helppie:

And I would imagine there were a couple of coaches you had that you wouldn’t mind masking them up at some point anyway, maybe with duct tape. Who knows?

Stu Grimson:

Scotty Bowman had this interesting…every now and then he’d get us doing a drill where it was like a more like an expanded scrimmage, and he had this little …I don’t even know what you call this thing. It was like a little handheld horn. It was tiny. You could hold it with one hand. And he would blow it. He would alternate between blowing that and blowing the traditional whistle. And there were different, each had different meanings, but he would do all that from the bench, like a coach would typically, not on the ice. So Scotty in his wisdom was always one step ahead of the game. He was thinking way ahead of his time, even all the way back then with this removing the coach from the coaching environment.

Rich Helppie:

Yeah, and I love the anecdotes of all the coaches and the ones on Scotty Bowman. Everybody should read the book just to get those insights. Stu, the one place that I relax-and I’ve had a business career raised a family and various hobbies, various sports-one thing that’s been consistent is I go to what I call my happy place now, the Little Caesars Arena. Also I’ve been to the Preds arena, that I’ve had the companies headquartered down there in Nashville and many of the arenas around the league. But I just relax there and not being able to do that’s really something I miss. And any idea are they going to let fans come back in, and I miss some of my beer vendors and things that.

Stu Grimson:

I’m sure, there and I suppose to buttress that as much as anything Rich. I often say this, and people who experienced hockey for the first time or who are new to our sport, really have the same opinion about it. There really is no sport quite like it to see in person. There’s nothing like seeing a hockey game in person. It has a different feel, a different dynamic and there’s a different energy than is present in the other major sports. So I love our game on TV. I’m an avid follower of our game on TV, but there’s no substitute for the in person experience. So for you and the many, many, many fans like you out there who really thrive and so deeply appreciate that personal experience, I feel bad that as we get back on the ice, it seems to me, and please understand, this is just one analysts opinion. I’m several layers removed from the decision making process, but it would appear that the balance of the 19-20 season is going to be played without fans in the building. And then fingers crossed and hoping things continue to trend in the right direction. Perhaps by the start of the 20-21 season, we’ll be at a place where fans are able to return to our 31 arenas. I’m confident that will be in limited capacity or restricted capacity to start, but in time we’ll get back to that-that old familiar experience once we’ve kind of been able to check some boxes where this virus is concerned. Like prevalent human immunity, like this herd immunity we keep hearing so much about, like a vaccine to counter act this virus. Once we kind of have this thing under our thumb, I’m optimistic that that’s not too far away. I think we’ll be back to something inside NHL venues that looks more like what we were accustomed to seeing in the past.

Rich Helppie:

Well I’m sure hopeful of that and in the meantime, if they need a couple of designated fans to be in those empty arenas, I want to get to the front of the line for that. So what I think about also, the league and the clubs. I know the clubs have to hire a hygiene officer, and I know in some of the sports that they’re looking at the contract with their players unions that if they play one game, that the clubs may be on the hook for an entire year of salary. Are there any adjustments that you’re aware of in terms of the clubs or the finances or contracts that need to be opened up in light of the current situation we’re in?

Stu Grimson:

Yeah, I am not. Those are kind of ground level discussions I don’t have a great feel for at this point. The one thing, the one comment I could kind of insert in this part of our discussion is that where individual contracts are concerned, we’re in a situation right now where the way that the typical, standard NHL players contract is structured, is that the year typically runs July one to June 30th. So if you can appreciate, there are dozens of players out there who are in the last year of their contract that will see their contract legally expire, terminate, come June 30th. But what the league and the players association have agreed to do where this category of players are concerned is essentially slide that year to the 19-20 contract year will now slide to cover the balance of what’s left of this season so that we don’t have this hodgepodge of, oh well, the Nashville Predators had three unrestricted free agents that just kind of aren’t eligible to play this expanded playoff format that we’re talking about.

Rich Helppie:

That is very insightful, and it’s a lot more complicated in all walks of our life. Stu, this has been fantastic. A great session on the Common Bridge. Is there anything that we didn’t cover that maybe we should have discussed?

Stu Grimson:

Oh gosh, that’s always a tough question for me, Rich, I feel like we’ve run the gamut, I really do. But if I could, I think just the last point I would make is one that I’ve tried to make earlier. For folks that enjoy hockey, for folks that appreciate the inside stories or a peek behind the curtain, the book, The Grim Reaper, The Life and Career of a Reluctant Warrior, is one that certainly provides that. But the thing that has encouraged me most about the book, is just folks who have responded to me having read the book and said, you went through a contract situation in Carolina and you openly admitted that you overplayed your hand, made a mistake and regret that you ever did it, or maybe at least would have gone about it in a different way knowing what you know now, that helped me in my own personal situation and I’m not a pro athlete. So that for me is just a heart full of encouragement knowing that there’s more to this book than just a hockey book. So if I could leave one parting thought that would probably be it.

Rich Helppie:

Again, thoroughly recommend everyone read Stu Grimson:  The Grim Reaper, The Life and Career of a Reluctant Warrior. Stu, thank you much for being on the Common Bridge. We look forward to resumption of the National Hockey League and we will do an update as we know more information. This is Rich Helppie signing off on the Common Bridge.

Brian Kruger:

You have been listening to Richard Helppie’s Common Bridge podcast. Recording and post-production provided by Stunt Three Multimedia. All rights are reserved by Richard Helppie. For more information, visit RichardHelppie.com.